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                     They don’t care. This is only government, but they don’t know who is government.
                     It can be local, it can be provincial, but for the people, they just need your
                     responsible. But with the decentralization, sometimes, the central government just
                     blames. We already reform all the power to local government. But, local government,
                     ok, we only have the power and the burden, but you didn’t give the money properly.
                     So, that’s the issue until now.  We have still to rearrange what do we mean by
                     decentralization, in terms of the structure, in terms of the budget, and so on.

                           Even for this forcing, the central government still controls. For example,
                     the budget item, the normal budget, normal klatur, structure normal klatur, program
                     normal klatur. Everything was controlled by the central government. It means that
                     there is no more room for local government to create program that funded with local
                     issues. For example, before we have law on, for example, disaster management,
                     everything has been controlled by the central government. Then the local government
                     cannot raise a program, which is different from the existing normal klatur. And if not,
                     then, the central government just cross the normal klatur.  It’s not really funded.
                     Actually, the laws funded the local issues, but again, everything has been controlled
                     by the central government from the small things, for the normal klatur, for the item,
                     and so on.

                           The other issue, what is the effective way of giving autonomy with the district
                     level or the provincial level? In 1998, the discussion about this based on autonomy,
                     today very hard. Some people actually agree that it’s better at the provincial level, so
                     just to create like autonomous skill, more efficient, but the problem is some people
                     say that it’s really dangerous because it feels like federalism. It’s a great forum for
                     provincial government to fulfill himself to be more autonomous and become
                     independent. But if we give it to district level, then it’s too big to manage. And
                     experience of different countries, autonomy, normally they give it to district level and
                     for district or city level they just do minor activities, but in Indonesia everything has
                     been reformed to district level, with very limited capacity and of course the
                     effectiveness is questionable. Thank you very much.


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